Jesse Boykins III Talks "New Growth," His Personal Style and Romance
The tracklist, the lyrics, the wardrobe, Jesse Boykins III isn't mincing his works --or style-- on his latest project, New Growth. "Honestly, I'm a Threat," "Kind and Nasty," "No Pussy For Losers," Let It Come To You," Boykins, 38, takes us on a bassy, experimental RnB journey through relationships, communication, love and masculinity. "Every other word I hear is her complainin'/About how all these dudes ain't been maintainin'/Every other lie they tell, they just get caught up/ Just stop the faucet off, if they all fall short of love," the Bartholomew sings on "No Pussy For Losers." "Women express themselves openly and tell men everything they're feeling and how they think, and men respond, 'Eehh.' They don't pour out or open up about what they're going through. To me, that's unfair to put yourself in a position of power to feel like you're the dominant one in the relationship. That's not cool. That's a loser. So I wrote it out, so I won’t do that," Boykins shared. New Growth is grown man's music that provides a foundation for real conversation. Below, we extend that conversation beyond the 14 songs and 45 minutes.
Interview by Nigel Isaiah
Who inspired you both visually and sonically growing up?
I grew up in Jamaica, so my family my uncles and aunts. My aunts were in a singing group together in church. We [all my cousins] went to voice lessons and stuff like that and were in the choir. My dad and uncles are stylish Rasta dudes, really into fashion and style and attention to detail. My father is big on clothes. I got a lot of visual inspiration just straight from my household.
You used to sing background. I know for sure you sang background for Keyshia Cole. What were your pros and cons of doing background singing?
No one has asked me that. When I was younger, I always wanted to find a way to see how things work without paying for it. So I treated everything as like school, you know. I've sung background for Lyfe Jennings and a bunch of people, and I learned the do's and don't's of what to do and not to do as the band leader. That was a part of my interest in it. Then meeting musicians as a community. Meeting a bunch of people who did what I did and supported artists and understood what that was and what that felt like. So then, I would be able to communicate in a way to people and show gratitude because they were contributing to what I was doing. That's what I learned during my short-term years of background singing.
Okay because I read that while you sang background for other artists, you realized you wanted to be the artist. What were those feelings or emotions like, realizing this while you were working?
I always wanted to be an artist. In high school, I would record myself and go to the studio. And writing! Writing songs, writing letters, whatever I could, as far as writing is concerned. That's always been a part of what I wanted to do. I think learning or not having mentors and having to put myself in the environment was what I would say to do. A lot of times, people look at things and think that they can do it because they see it, but they're not in it. You have to put yourself through the experience, in a sense, to understand what is and isn't important to you. What you do and don't want.
On the new album, New Growth, this is your fourth album solo album. First of all, the project's title. I see the hair. I know you're a plant dad. Generally speaking, what does new growth mean to you?
It's about risk-taking and acknowledging moments in life that might have been hard, but bringing you to a space you needed to be in. A lot of times people play it safe, or they get stagnant or stuck based on not trying to take risks. It's about that and then the process of being present when it's happening.
Let's talk about some of the songs from the album. "Kind And Nasty!" Why is there a need for nasty and want for kind?
Top (similar styles) & Jeans (similar styles) MOSCHINO, Chuck 70 Vintage Canvas ($85.00) CONVERSE.
I was on the phone. We do these group calls, me and my homies, and now they're all married. I'm the only one who's not married. I'm like the glorified Uncle Jesse. I babysit the kids and all that, and they were telling me the version of women that I desired does not exist, or I'm too picky. I kind of got mad on the call because everybody was teaming up on me. I hung up the phone, I went on a walk, and I was thinking, 'What are my wants?' It pretty much came down to her being kind-hearted and expressive in certain aspects of life. I don't care if like she’s a vegan or eats meat or Buddhist or Christian. Those things are all case by case, and you learn from whatever those experiences are, but be genuinely kind-hearted and openly explorative.
"No Pussy For Losers." Have you ever found yourself getting pussy that you didn't deserve?
Yes. All the time!
We're you a loser?
I mean, it depends on who's looking at it. It's Subjective.
You're looking at it in hindsight.
Yes, definitely. I think if you're cutting corners or finding a way to take advantage of things you should work hard to earn, that's a loser to me. Somebody who is taking advantage of a situation based on the knowledge that they have, and not necessarily contributing to, being as vulnerable, or open about what their situation is in the whole circumstance. I think it happens a lot. Women express themselves openly and tell men everything that they're feeling and how they think, and men respond, 'Eehh.' They don't pour out or open up about what it is they're going through. To me, that's unfair, you know, to put yourself in a position of power to feel like you're the dominant one in the relationship, and that's not cool. That's a loser, so I wrote it out, so I won’t do that.
Top (similar styles) & Jeans (similar styles) MOSCHINO, Chuck 70 Vintage Canvas ($85.00) CONVERSE.
Also, I scrolled through your IG. In your first post, you talked about music and film. How important are visuals and creating them?
I'm a visual artist! I'm a visual artist that makes music. When I'm writing things, I see them. I mean colors, tone, movement. I've always been very inspired by cinema, so I try my best to make my music as cinematic as possible so you can see it. If you don't like it, you don't need to see a video. Listen to it and picture your own story. That's the type of music I love the most. So yeah, I write. I wrote a short film script that inspired the album. It's a soundtrack to this short, so it thrives and drives a lot of things.
I also know that you creative directed and executive co-produced Masego's album. How was that for you? What was that process like?
It was cool because he is a good friend of mine. I remember when he first came to me. He played me a bunch of stuff a couple of years ago. We've been sharing ideas, and we live close to each other. We would be at the studio talking and having a lot of conversations. When he came to me to work on a project, he was in a space where he was trying to understand a lot of things about himself. I was in the same space, so we took the journey together. That's what I appreciated about working with him because I work with a lot of female artists --predominantly female artists-- already. I don't work with many male singers, so when he asked me to do it, I was honored. He's talented, he's amazing, and special on stage. He plays instruments. We do the same thing. He records himself. I record myself. He produces as I produce. It was like joining a team, so it was fire.
Okay, are there any artists that you were looking at like, I need to get my hands on? They need my creative direction.
I don't want to say that because then I take away from whoever's doing creative direction for them now. I would love to direct a video for Miguel, Sampha, or anybody along the lines of that. I think about artists like Frank [Ocean]. Frank doesn't do a lot of videos, but it would be cool to do a film. Victoria Monét! I'd love to do a video for her. She's amazing, but she doesn't need my help, she's doing great right now. So, everyone that I'm thinking of actually, for me, it would just be to try to share a different side of them that I haven't seen yet.
Let's talk about personal style. Have you always dressed in this nonbinary space? It's not masculine it's not feminine. It's...
It's unisex! Yeah, I have actually. Up until my senior year of college, I did the tall tees, the field mob Timberlands, the du-rag with the New Era cap. I was a part of that generation. But, before that, when I was in Jamaica, we wore uniforms, and besides that, we wore Mizuno and Umbro, Diadora, and all these different European brands that I realized that I'm a fan of those cuts --and Japanese cuts. My favorite thing to do is layer and catch different ways of colors and textures, mixing the two. I love fabrics. That inspires what I wear. How do things lay on you? The weight of things, all these things that I care about in style and design specifically. I've been on that for a while, and I designed clothes too. Even the stuff on my album cover I co-designed with a designer I work with named Anjia Jalac. I came up in New York. I went to New School, Parsons, so my homies were into fashion or communication, design, and merchandising. I've always taken an interest in production and what it takes to make a product that defeats trends and keeps going. A lot of my pieces I wore for eight years. I get something quality, like a vintage pair of Levis from the 1960s, that I can wear every day because I want to. I go on how I feel.
When did you switch your personal style and your outward gender expression?
That's a great question! Right after my first album, I went to London. Then I went to a show in Germany. I was in Berlin for three weeks. I was meeting all these designers, and they were younger than me. They were exploring with meshes, lace, and satin [fabrics]. I took a liking to how that felt more than anything. I like the feeling of these materials. They're soft, and I'm Jamaican, so I'm already naturally intense. I try to balance it out as much as I can. My style and the things I wear helped me keep some softness, and that's important. When I think about all the different types of people I've met, and all the different types of people I've been blessed to be around, I think it is best to come at it from that standpoint. Of course, express yourself freely, but still be graceful in how you express yourself. Wearing clothing that highlights or embodies that brings me to that space when I need to be calmer and bring me peace.
Have you found that other people are challenged by your gender expression?
Of course, I've been in a lot of different circumstances or situations where people mistake that for a weakness. I think it's a strength. I remember a specific story. Shit, I was in New York, in Brooklyn. I was in Thompson projects. I don’t remember what street I was on, but I was walking down the street, and I had my headphones on. I was wearing this floral button-up. It was fitted, and I had the sleeves rolled up and it's summertime and I have my headphones on and seeing three dudes and one girl. When I walked by, the three guys were laughing at me. I stopped, and I backed up because I saw them laugh. I tilt my head like, 'y'all laughing at me,' and they were like, 'yeah.' I'm like what's funny because I got mad a little bit. And they were like your shirt. Oh, yeah your shirt is funny man. Why are you wearing that shirt, it's fruity. So I stopped and I looked at them, and I looked at the girl with them, and I asked you like my shirt? She says I love your shirt, and I looked at them and said, Y'all niggas, have a good day. I put my headphones back on, and I kept moving. I realized I'd much rather push the boundaries and have conversations that ignite other people to question their beliefs. If my clothing and my style are a version of me doing that, then I'm fine with that.
Let's shift to the plants. They’re on the album cover all up and down your IG profile. Who put you on to being a plant dad?
Oh man, that's so funny. I desire to be in nature so much, but I also have to work. If I could set up a studio outside and record outside all day, I would love to do that. If I could have meetings outside and create spaces where I could have dry-erase boards and be in that space, then I would love to do that, so I just flipped it. I brought the plants to me. I have maybe forty plants at my house.
I'm an aspiring plant dad. What would you recommend?
Money Trees! The easiest to take care of. You water them every twenty-one days. It's pretty, it takes care of itself, and it doesn't have to be in a lot of light. Monstera, too! Low water intake, every fourteen-fifteen days. I will start with those. Everybody usually starts with succulents, like a cactus or something, but that's cheating. You can water the cactus every four months if you want. I would start with those two plants. Monstera are my favorite and Birds of Paradise too.
Is there a plant that you feel represents you most?
I love palm trees! Palm leaves, specifically banana leaves. Any leaves that could be a cocoon for something or wrap something around and feel warm. On the photo shoots for My album, I had my art director make me palm-leaf wings. I always see palms together, like a family of palm trees, all like kicking it. They remind me of togetherness.
How do you maintain your mental health?
That's a great question. At times, it's challenging to balance out having to be an artist and also having to be my own manager. I'm the booking agent and production, and all these things, and then still contribute to other people's work and want to be a part of other people's things. The main thing for me is I take a lot of walks. I write. Writing is the most healing thing when you can converse with yourself and get it off you. I think journaling, writing short stories, or whatever version of expression you can do. Everybody can't paint, or everybody can't draw. To me, writing is my version of painting. It's my version of drawing and it brings me to a space where I'm present. I'm grateful that I'm able to express myself because a lot of times it gets hard to figure out what the emotions are or identify them. Writing helps me identify my emotions as clearly as I possibly can. Then, whatever conversation you have to have with someone, if you write it down already then you've already had it. It's more about being able to communicate with a person. I feel like that's where miscommunication happens because I'm trying to process what I want to tell you. I'm also feeling these emotions in my body at the same time, so it's hard for me to communicate it in a way where you feel like I'm not attacking you or making you feel less than you or all these things that come with a conversation. I try to maintain some sort of level-headedness about it.
What has been the biggest lesson you've learned about romance?
The biggest lesson about romance. My definition of romance is thoughtfulness. Sometimes the thing that might not seem romantic to someone, traditionally, to me, I'm not a traditional thinker in that sense. I remember one time I was with someone. She started a business, so I bought her website domain for her as a present, you know what I'm saying. I like to think about things like that, where I'm trying to contribute to someone's development. If I can find a way to do that in a thoughtful manner, then that's like the highest form of romance. Everything else, dinner and flowers, that's cool. It's nice, it's thoughtful, but is it lasting? I care about the sustainability of something. So yeah, thoughtfulness.
What's next creatively for you?
I've been writing scripts and directing things, and I want to move more into that space of directing and writing. Also, more music I haven't released. It took me seven years to put this album out, based on being stuck in this label deal I couldn't get out of, and a publishing deal I couldn't get out of, and trying to re-excite myself about the music industry. What I can contribute to it? What conversations do I want to be a part of? How do I want to build community inside the music industry, as far as artists are concerned? So I think having to pivot my mind on what's needed, and what I can contribute to what's needed. That's the main thing for me, and I know it's going to be a process, but I think the visual aspect of it helps a lot.
Art Director & Photographer: Ammar Thomas @iam.ammarjamal | Fashion Director & Interview: Nigel Isaiah @nigel_isaiah | Location: The 9 Studio | Special Thanks: The Oriel
